This post is a follow up to a previous look at Men That Cry.
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Why do men cry? Today we consider some findings from a year old Men’s Health study.
Rankings of what makes guys cry:
- The death of a family member or close friend
- Watching a sad movie or TV show
- A girlfriend breaking up with them
- The death of a pet
- Breaking up with a girlfriend
The list goes up to #21, so I’ll just point out some highlights. First off, I feel slightly more normal by #7–Listening to an emotional song. Also, I’d be passing up a clean spike if I ignored #17–Attending a wedding. That’s one thing that makes me want to cry but probably not in the way most humans would expect
. Oh come on, I’m not the only one who thinks weddings are torture am I?
Guys are most likely to cry when they feel:
Sad–46.4%
Lonely–14.2%
Frustrated–9.7%
Sorry for yourself–7.9%
Stressed–7.6%
Angry–6.1%
Happy–4.8%
Ashamed–3.0%
I don’t see any big surprises here except that maybe stress seems to be higher than these numbers indicate. I do loneliness pretty well. Yup, sadness is the main reason to release the waterworks for sure.
There’s too much in the survey to cover here, but I’m particularly curious in the part where they asked about how guys react to movies. First off, 25% of liars men claim they’ve never cried while watching a sad movie/TV show. Give me a 30 minute interview with those cats and I’ll prescribe the perfect movie to crush their souls.
For everyone else though, the research even includes specific movies that make men cry. I’ll list the movies as Men’s Health did and include the percentage of men who claimed that each particular film got their emotions going. I’m also adding my signature observations.
Movies that make men cry:
1. Marley and Me (22.1%)–I hate to admit this, but my throat was on fire by the end of this stupid movie. Had to keep it in check though in front of the fam. I resent you Marley. Stupid Hollywood.
2. The Notebook (21.6%)–The Tyler Tarver special. Let’s go nuts and all be birds. I don’t remember getting weepy but it’s possible that James Garner’s reaction to his bride at the end got me. Seen that movie 4 times though.
3. Old Yeller (21.1%)–Whatever. This thing ended up playing one year during a free day at grade school. Snore city.
4. Titanic (20.7%)–Are you kidding me? I couldn’t wait for Jack to finally die by the end of this one. If I was gushing it was only because I drank a bucket of cola before watching ocean water for an hour.
5. Saving Private Ryan (18.3%)–Again, don’t remember tears on this one but World War II is definitely some eduClaytion kryptonite.
6. The Lion King (15.5%)–Okay, I admit it. Watching Mufasa go down hurt. And did ya hear that this one’s being re-released into theaters in 3D?
7. Toy Story 3 (13.6%)–Everyone talked about tears in this one, but they skipped me.
8. The Blind Side (13.1%)–Not even close but a very good movie.
9. Up (12.7%)–Nope. Don’t remember much ab–SQUIRREL!
10. Schindler’s List (10.8%)–Don’t remember tears but was certainly moved when Oscar goes through his gut-wrenching regret at the end. But now that I think of it, why isn’t Life Is Beautiful on this list? That one got me.
11. P.S. I Love You (10.3%)–This is a list about men, right? If a Gerard Butler movie is going to make a guy cry it better be 300.
12. A Walk to Remember (9.9%)–Why is this even here? How about Point Break Men’s Health? Is that too much to ask?
13. Rudy (8.9%)–I know how much this movie means to lots of people. Just not me. My favorite Sean Astin flicks are Goonies and Encino Man.
14. Shawshank Redemption (7.5%)–One of the best ever, but did I cry? Not even close during the 15 or so times I watched it.
15. Slumdog Millionaire (6.6%)–Great flick. Not really sad.
16. Dear John (5.6%)–Alas, a film I don’t know. Looked it up. I remember seeing a trailer, the kind that makes me angry for having to sit through it while I proclaim, “That might be the worst movie ever made.”
17. Big Fish (5.6%)–This one definitely got to me.
18. The Time Traveler’s Wife (5.2%)–Never saw it. Almost sounds like the knuckleheads at GQ picked these titles.
19. WALL-E (5.2%)–No.
20. Steel Magnolias (2.8%)–Okay, now you’re just messing with me.
21. Beaches (2.3%)–Huh? I suppose you might induce tears if I was ever tortured by being forced to watch it again.
Quick Observations:
- For me, emotion during movies is tied to environment. Big difference between being in a theater or friend’s house or home alone.
- I remember The Green Mile being very tough to get through without being affected.
- Another notable exception for me is Band of Brothers. I know it’s more a series than movie but talk about soul-crushing. That one can be a real devastator.
- I’m glad Armageddon isn’t on there because then I’d probably do some mocking, and that’s not nice. Plus, if you cry at Armageddon I’m sure you’ll cry when I mock you.
What movies always make you cry?
What do you think about the reason men cry?



My hubs gets teary in Monsters Inc when Boo has to go back home. Or pretty much anytime she comes on screen.
It’s a good thing we have a little boy, ’cause I am pretty sure a little girl would get away with murder here.
I cry easier now than I ever did, but the first movie that made me cry was My Life with Michael Keaton and Wit with Emma Thompson made the hubs and I both cry.
Monsters Inc. is a very good movie. I don’t remember being affected by that one. You bring up a good point about My Life w/ Mike Keaton. Not the type of movie you watch twice. I did get burny throat on that one for sure.
“The Champ” , the original movie, now if you don’t cry at the end of that movie your just not human….
“My Cousin Vinny”, seen it about 1000 times and laugh so hard each time I cry…
“Fraggle Rock” , when I heard it was cancelled..
What makes me cry is seeing someone I love in pain….
Never saw The Champ. Is that another one of your picks from like 50 years ago
Ok Clay you have to at least see the remake from 1979 staring Jon Voight, Fay Dunaway and Ricky Schroder… Rent it, I am sure you will agree.. It is a guy movie about boxing…I am telling you I will not steer you wrong on this one, then let me know if you agree…BTW ony 50 years, your getting better..
Okay, I’ll get it on the list my friend.
“Henry Poole is Here” does it for me every time! If you haven’t seen it, you really should. And this one is going to make me sound like a COMPLETE nerd, but “Harry Potter 4: The Goblet of Fire” but only near the end when Harry brings back Cedric’s body. I really get teary-eyed when I watch “Scrubs.” There are certain episodes that just wrench the tears out of me. “My Lunch” is one and this episode especially, “My Long Goodbye”…complete with sad music: http://youtu.be/ocZ-FXGLrms
Scrubs has done that to me a number of times.
It’s amazing how that show can cause you to crack up and then bring you to tears. A sign of good writing, no?
You’re safe here Scott. Let your nerd flag fly. Scrubs is interesting. Never saw Henry Poole.
Thanks Clay. I feel safe. If you have some free time I highly recommend Henry Poole. It looks at faith. Owen Wilson is actually really serious in this one.
My daughter was about 3 or 4 when Monsters Inc came out. We took her to see it in the theatre and she WAILED when boo went back home. The whole theatre was silent except for the loud wailing of my child. It was precious, but I think my husband may have been choking back a few tears as well.
I always end up with teary eyes during an episode of Biggest Loser. That makes me a big loser, doesn’t it?
So sorry about the cookie. The pain will heal in time.
Thanks for understanding my cookie pain. As for Monsters, you are the 2nd one to mention it and I just can’t recall being that moved although I liked the movie a lot. I’ll have to watch it again sometime.
I’m a girl. So….in my opinion, a guy even admitting he has cried is HUGE. Man ego is over-rated.
My dad said he bawled watching Old Yeller…but when I saw it as a kid, I thought, “what the heck was his problem?” Then again, I cried during Harry & the Hendersons, & still get picked on to this day for that. I feel I’ve become more emotional as I’ve gotten older, but even some of the movies in that list wouldn’t make me cry. We wont go into what movies always make me cry…but I did get teared up watching Soul Surfer last night. It happens… when good things happen, when people cry in movies, seeing someone hurt….that’ll do it.
God gave us tears and emotions for a reason. Use them. Share them…it makes us ladies feel less ridiculous for having our emotions. Or maybe that’s just my scars talking… I still hide when I’m crying. Curse you Harry!!!
You cried during Harry & the Hendersons? Really? Who does that!?!
Just kidding. I wonder what the weirdest movie is that ever got me choked up. That’d be an interesting topic of discussion for everyone.
First of all, you are not the only one who thinks that weddings are torture…they are. I wish everyone in the world would just elope so I would never have to go to another one again.
As for movies that make me cry, I think I’ve already told you, but I don’t cry during movies or T.V. shows. The only times I’ve ever come even remotely close to doing so was during a few episodes of Band of Brothers – the best thing that has EVER been filmed. I have watched the entire mini-series a good 15 times or so. Seriously. Major Winters’ leadership and Captain Spears’ courage…epic.
As for men crying, I think it’s more than okay for them to do it if someone dies, or if they have a broken heart – no shame in shedding thousands of tears in either of those 2 scenarios.
You are fantastic for saying that about Band of Brothers. Yes, it’s awesome. I still don’t know how you go all cyborg all the time on movies though. You must not have emotions
Kidding.
Yeah, I know…so unemotional. I think I had only so many tears in me to start with, and they got used up a couple of years ago..haha.
One of my friends told me I was made of tin and needed to ask the Wizard of Oz for a heart. He saw me cry once and then sent me this photo (http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/27/kobian-proves-that-robots-can-now-even-get-emotional-video/) and said, “See? Even robots think it’s okay to cry”.
Still makes me laugh.
No fair! That’s a girl-bot.
I think the majority of times I’ve cried in the last decade have been associated with sports. I cried when the Packers won the Super Bowl. I also got a little misty when the Red Sox won in 2004. Also, when I go to a baseball game and they don’t serve beer.
On the list at the beginning, numbers 20 and 21 are about sports teams winning/losing. But now that I know you rooted for the Packers last year I think it’s safe to say that I hate you a little more.
We are forever united in our mutual dislike of Titanic. Near the end of the movie, I whispered, “Thank goodness it only takes a few hours to sink.”
Movies that make me cry? Lots. The Hurricane, Gandhi, The Mission, Elephant Man, Braveheart, The King’s Speech (I think – I only remember Colin Firth jumping up and down…).
I’ll stop. For now.
I’m surprised that I didn’t add Braveheart up there, one of the all time sad films. I guess it’s just taken for granted in my brain. And I’m going to tease you now that I know you’re a big crier. The Crying Canuck from Calgary. Sounds like a kid’s book.
Someday I’ll sing my special Titanic sing for you. Here’s a highlight that is way better than the movie…
To be sung to the tune of Celine Dion’s “My Heart Will Go On.”
Near
Far
Kareem Abul-Jabar
Would not sit
And watch this stupid…
You get the idea.
Cannot believe Clay didn’t cry during Shawshank when that dude hangs himself. (Methinks he lies. Or he forgot. Fourteen times.)
I like your version better than Celine’s. As for the death of Brooksie, I liked him a lot but just didn’t feel the lump in my throat during that flick.
I have seen A Wonderful Life so many times and yet every time George stares into the raging river and wants to jump I begin to well up. When George gets slapped by the pharmacist causing deafness in one ear, my throat closes up and I blink back tears. But in the last few scenes when Clarence the angel shows George what life would have been like without him, the tears begin to run down my cheeks and they don’t stop until Clarence gets his wings and the credits roll!
George Bailey definitely came to mind for me too. I don’t remember how moved I was the first time I saw that film, but it certainly impacts me every year when I watch it at least once. So great.
Maybe IT’S A WONDERFUL LIFE should be used as a test for maturity. When I first saw that movie, I was a kid, and all I could see was a man who never ever ever got to do what he wanted to do, and it made me just angry. Later on, I could see the point and mostly agree with it. Envied that high school having an indoor pool. But, specially for men, most of whom never ever ever get to do what they want, but manage to get through life anyway, this movie is terrific.
Fantastic film, and I also failed to see the greatness until later. College specifically.
movies I cried through *cried almost entirely through the whole thing* are (but not limited to):
- To End All Wars
- The Help
- Return of the King
- Slumdog Millionaire
- Blood Diamond
- Harry Potter & The Deathly Hallows Part II
- Little Women
- Bridge to Terabithia
- Pan’s Labyrinth
- I Am Legend (was crying from terror)
- Joan of Arcadia TV show
- Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip TV show
- The Patriot
- Adam
- The Matrix
Okay…that’s enough. Let’s just say I cry in almost every movie I watch. It helps me dispel all that drama and sadness so that it won’t eat at me from the inside.
I laughed out loud in your post! Great assessment of the supposed “tear-jerker” movies…especially Titanic. lol.
So Ellster is a big crier eh? You have a big heart, so that’s part of it. I’d still make fun of you though but only in love. I also know that Tyler Tarver would agree that Deathly Hallows Part 2 was tear worthy. I haven’t seen it yet but finally caught Part 1 recently, so maybe I’ll get that in sometime. Glad I made you laugh
Shows with moving father-son bits in them.
I consider that cheating, Hollywood.
Yes! I’m with you on that Ricky and sorry if I joked about wrapping you in bubble wrap and setting you on fire at Tyler’s site today.
No worries; it didn’t make me cry.
My strangest one is probably Dr. Seuss’s “How the Grinch Stole Christmas” (the original, not the Jim Carrey version). I’ve been watching that movie for over 20 years now, and I still get all teary-eyed whenever the Who’s all gather around the Christmas tree and start singing. And yes, I’m secure enough in my masculinity to admit that.
I think the security is endearing to most people. That’s why I’m not afraid to admit what gets to me. Of course, that doesn’t mean I cried during the Grinch, but I respect that.
I don’t usually cry when watching movies, but Love Story (1970) always makes me cry. I usually turn it off 3/4 of the way through to keep the tear ducts turned off. It’s amazing the lengths I will go to avoid crying
I know that’s one of the all-time tearjerkers, at least for the ladies. I get too annoyed at the mushy love story part when it’s that drippy. I’m kind of like Fred Savage in The Princess Bride in that way. And for Ryan O’Neal I’ll take What’s Up Doc? anyday. Thanks for the comment!
THE NOTEBOOK?? Even the thought of that movie makes me roll my eyes so hard that it gives me a migraine, which are sometimes bad enough that I cry. That would be the only way that movie would make me cry. Well, if I ever saw it, Which I won’t. I don’t like migraines. And if it’s anything like the one Nicholas Sparks book I read a few years ago, something like Letters from some dead person to some other dead person then I would be in a special kind of hell if I had to sit through The Notebook or any similarly manipulative drivel. I also was utterly unimpressed with Beaches or Steel Magnolias though I did cry a little at the scene following the funeral only because there are some outstanding actresses in that scene.
I’d probably cry at Saving Private Ryan. Hell, I got all teary-eyed just standing on Omaha Beach. I just know I’ll spend half of the movie with my hand over my eyes. I generally cry when there are animals involved. And The Color Purple gets me every single time.
Weddings are hell. And I have to go to one in a week and a half. If it weren’t my best friend whom I’ve known since we were 5, I would never go. But it’s still going to be hell.
I don’t know, I’m starting to think I might be a guy.
Why don’t you tell us how you really feel? “Manipulative drivel” almost sounds like something I would say, but even I can get down with The Notebook as a great story. But you and I will unite over our feelings on Beaches and weddings eh?
The dumber the movie, the more likely my husband is likely is to cry.
What a list. I wonder about their survey techniques because I don’t believe that great of a percentage of men would cry during those movies (much less admit it).
Crying during movies isn’t something I do often, surprisingly. It’s the real-life stuff that gets me more. As for Titanic, I actually had to stifle my laughter because my aunt was sobbing uncontrollably during the whole thing. I think my dad cried from his sister’s death grip. We still joke about it to this day. One movie that got me, though, was The Grace Card. Powerful story.
Oh, come on, I know you were crying during The Titanic. Actually, that film was probably too soft for you since you like the heavy stuff like Conan the Barbarian.
Haven’t seen the Grace Card. I’ll put it on the list with Diabolique.
I agree with you on Green Mile.
I, too, am completely confused by A Walk to Remember being on that list. However, I do like some of the Mandy Moore songs in it. ::head hung in shame::
The very first movie I every remember crying during was Land Before Time. Little Foot lost his mom, damn it!
I also cried during Drop Dead Fred. She lost her imaginary friend, damn it!
I’ll stop now before I embarrass myself any further.
Say it ain’t so Thoughtsy! You can have secret Mandy Moore likings as long as you don’t tell anyone how I rock out to the Spice Girls in my car. Plus you are always so cool and once again have proved it here today with a reference to Drop Dead Fred. Yes! You need to do a “Movies Teach” on that one.
Drop Dead Fred isn’t available on Netflix. So I had to “Save” it. Hopefully they’ll have it soon.
I judge you not about the Spice Girls. Not because I’ve listened to them recently or anything, but just because I’m nice like that.
I knew you wouldn’t judge me Thoughtsy, but I am disappointed about this Drop Dead Fred issue. As you can see the public demands your attention in this manner. We may have to get proactive and hit up the Amazon in a special blogging event starring eduClaytion & Thoughtsy. We might not be as good as Kelly and O’Connor but we’ll still shake up the internet.
I love this idea!
Dang gurl. I just looked up that DVD. Expensive! We’ll need to raise tens of dollars.
Drop Dead Fred! I got teary during that scene! I put it down to puberty… I can do that, can’t I? Blame the puberty?!
My hubs cried at Field of Dreams (catch with dad? gets him every time) and Remember the Titans (when the kid gets hit by the car and later at funeral). Those are also 2 of his absolutely favorite movies, so I guess he is comfortable with his love of emotionally-charged movies.
Also, the world NEEDS a “movies teach us” of Drop Dead Fred. There is SO much to learn from that movie!! Excellent suggestion Clay. Get on it Thoughtsy!
Oh yeah! How could I forget Field of Dreams? I bet that one got me a couple time at the end. It’s those pesky father-son moments. And Remember the Titans too! What’s wrong with me? Are you reading my mind? Thanks for seconding the Thoughtsy post. She needs to get on it indeed.
I tried! Netflix doesn’t have it. Can I borrow it from you?
Oh man! I would totally let you borrow mine, but unfortunately it is one of the rare 80s movies that I don’t own. Actually, I may have it on vhs in a box in the basement somewhere, but I don’t think that will help you. Maybe ask for it for xmas? They are already selling ornaments in the mall, so it must be coming soon!
I have laughed so hard reading all these comments! Good stuff. Personally,I get annoyed if a guy can’t get choked up if the movie is lump in throat worthy. Not fun sitting next to a brick wall,ya know. (Equally annoying if a guy continues to tease me for a dramatic reaction to a lifelong fear, for several months after the movie…not naming names.) I’ve been tearing up at my kids’ movies,like Despicable Me, and even Tangled! *smacks head in shame* Movies that portray things that are going on in my life also have been getting to me. I actually can’t recall a movie that cause full on crying.Hmmm,I know it’s happened though.
I admit,I wore the same emotions on my face or at least in my heart! When you’ve been there and done that,and walked away with a hand print on your face,going to weddings is an endurance test for sure! Tears galore! LOL!
Weddings? Uhgg! I recently had the pleasure of watching the countenances of my brothers two best buddies during his wedding…hilarious! It was a mixture of happy,sucker,and not in my lifetime!
Fun reading,Clay! Happy crying everyone! xoxo
I can’t believe someone would make fun of you like that. And if you cry during Tangled I will let that one go on account of the bond Flynn and I have shared lo these many months. That recent wedding was good because of the setup. Much of my wedding resentment stems from the countless ceremonies I was forced to attend of people I didn’t know for so many years. I like it better when I know and care about the person going in.
I remember a commercial a few years back where a guy drops his beer in a theater and he cries after it rolls down and breaks. Definitely tear-worthy. Toy Story 3 got me a little, too.
Ha, I remember that commercial too. Good one. As for TS3, I think I was so ramped up for sadness that I wasn’t affected like I might’ve been.
I cry at pretty much any movie that has touching scenes. Many of those movies are mentioned in previous comments. For some reason I cried uncontrollably when I got in the car after seeing E.T. … The scene that got to me was when the little boy was in the medical tent crying out for his alien buddy. My best guess is that it got to me because a child was in pain and I couldn’t help him (and at that point, no one could). Of course, I’ve been known to tear up watching Hallmark or “soldier returns in time for Christmas” commercials, so I’m an easy mark. I should add that if other people in the room aren’t equally moved, I try to hide my tears.
If I don’t like a particular character’s behavior, all sympathy is lost. In “Gladiator,” Russell Crowe’s family is murdered by a nasty king. Of course, Crowe’s character had marched all over tarnation murdering innocents for the glory of Rome before this tragedy. He lost me at CONQUER. I also thought Winger’s character in “Terms of Endearment” was a bad wife and poor mother and bid her adieu without shedding a tear. I hoped her widowed husband would choose a better mate in the future. ;}
What do I think about the reason(s) men cry? They cry for all the same reasons other mortals do. No surprises here. My husband rarely cries and the few times he has he refers to it as his eyes watering!?!? (Yes, it earned double interrobangs.) I said, “Is that the same thing as crying?” He managed not to answer the question and I didn’t pursue it. Six of one, half a dozen of another, I suppose.
Oh, I forgot to add that I laughed heartily at your, “I Eat My Own Poop,” photo. I could hear your mom whispering, “Don’t encourage him.” ;}
Gladiator didn’t get to me, and I’m not really a Terms of Endearment/Deborah Winger type guy anyway. And yes, it’s called eyes watering.
The only movie that always makes me cry is “Click” with Adam Sandler. The remorse of fast forwarding through life really gets me.
Oh yeah, how could I forget that one! That was one of the toughest ever to watch. Love that movie, a modern take on It’s a Wonderful Life really.
Dude; I am a manly man! I do not cry! Except if I watch “The Wrestler”. Or “Blood Diamond”. Or a few other movies with a flawed hero who makes tremendous personal sacrifice or depict great injustice. Or “Lars and The Real Girl”. Or some episodes of “Undercover Boss”.
I’d also mention the regular reasons for which I leak from the eyes but they’ve really been covered off here. Heartbreak, loss of loved ones (including pets) and missing out on the last Malteser are all up there. I’m pretty sure I cried when Polly Waffles were taken off the shelves in 2009 – no longer to be produced.
Your reference to Undercover Boss (which I only saw once) reminded me of Extreme Home Makeover. I don’t know if you have that in Australia, but that one can get you!
Of the plethora of reality shows that have been aired here, I cannot recall a mention of Extreme Home Makeover. I’ll have to see if the internets can help me find an episode. Undercover Boss got me sometimes because it was amazing to hear the stories of people who endure such difficulties and still know how to smile and laugh. It reminded me to be more thankful for my circumstances.
Gah, what movies *don’t* make me cry? Then again I’m a woman, and an emotional one at that, so you probably weren’t asking me. But I’m with you on Life is Beautiful– if that doesn’t choke a dude up, I don’t know what will.
My thoughts on the reason men (infrequently) cry: I think men have a long way to go to get to the end of themselves. Most don’t wear their hearts right on their sleeves– they protect them with pride and strength, and those will go a long, long way in keeping a guy safe. I think it takes a circumstance that says “your pride and strength will do you no good here” to get a guy to arrive at the end of himself and be able to let out tears.
Emotional woman eh? So you cry a lot? Does that include commercials? Yes, Life is Beautiful is crazy good. Highly recommended.
I love this! I cannot imagine a guy crying at Beaches, Steel Magnolias or Titanic.
And that movie Click made me cry more than most others! So glad it wasn’t just me…
I’m glad you get it. I’ve heard a few people put down Click. They hadn’t seen it. But it is a surprising emotion tugger.
So glad I clicked on this one for I was just talking about Click. I’m more of a guy when it comes to showing emotions in a movie, esp. at the theatre. You can imagine how ticked and unprepared I was to lose it at a Sandler flick! I actually got mad because I felt duped by Hollywood. If I wished to cry, I would’ve stayed home and watched Out of Africa ~
Haha, well the sad moments usually are a surprise for me too. I don’t ever go to the movies because “I need a good cry.” I don’t ever need a cry because they aren’t good. Yet Click was good. I own it.
Ok, I’m back. Watched Out of Africa about a month ago and found it was as boring as Gone with the Wind. I must be missing something? My husband and I actually had a good laugh through Gone with the Wind….
Out of Africa is boring. As for Gone W/ the Wind, it does have some down periods to be sure but is still a winner. Any slow scene with Vivien Leigh is good enough for me
The Notebook! That’s a tear jerker. I try not to watch movies that make me cry. Otherwise, I’ll cry so much!
I try to avoid the tearjerkers too Marilag.
Now I cry at a lot of movies but I’m an emotional gal. But for you how about Stand By Me.
Good question. Stand By Me is a classic but didn’t tug my heartstrings at all. Since you bring up a Stephen King story, I’m thinking about another adaptation of his work, a movie I saw once w/ Anthony Hopkins called Hearts In Atlantis. Something in my brain tells me that one had a touching scene or two.