I’ve been thinking recently about something I was told years ago after some guy threw me through his kitchen wall. Well, let me back that thing up for a second.
As a private school educated 17-year-old, I was especially naive during my first semester at university. About midway through that first year, I started going to places I shouldn’t have gone where other college kids did the kinds of things that college kids do.
Image from mobilehomerenovation.com
My roommate was older and suave and eventually allowed me to tag along with the “cool” kids. One of the weekly haunts was the apartment of a guy I’ll call Bender.
Bender was an upperclassman with a cool nickname and the adoration of more than one female including a particular girl I crushed on for two straight years. (She never went for me despite my secret strategy of being too afraid to really talk to her).
One late night I found Bender alone in his kitchen basically spazzing out. He was gritting his teeth and punching himself in the face kind of like he might be getting ready to play linebacker in the big game. I remember thinking how bad one of those punches would hurt me. After all, I was weighing in at a whopping 155 pounds back then.
Bender ignored my appeals to stop, so I grabbed both of his forearms and held his fists to his cheeks. He looked at me with wide eyes that in hindsight should’ve told me a lot about what he was on.
The next thing I knew, he was driving me backwards into and through his kitchen wall. I don’t think he meant to hurt me, and he didn’t, but man was that wall destroyed. I am 6’3″ after all.
As I picked drywall crumbs from my hair a few minutes later, another big man on campus named Tom put his hand on my shoulder and said those words I’ve never forgotten:
“When it’s not your business Claydawg, just leave it alone.”
~*~*~*~
I chewed on that advice for years. Truth told, it probably saved me from a lot of hassle during the rest of my many college years, but then I started to become a leader and began developing a conscience.
Part of being an adult is about recognizing when something is wrong and understanding that it’s up to you to take action, to do the right thing. I’ve often struggled, as I’m sure many of you have, with those decisions about whether or not to get involved in someone else’s life when you know something is wrong.
Some of you might even be weighing such a decision right now. Plenty of questions to consider in these situations. Is it your business? Should you just leave it alone?
I bring all this up because I’ve been the one out of the loop in two separate and significant issues in recent months. In both cases, people were saying and doing things that were very much to my detriment in personal ways. I had zero knowledge of these situations and so was unable to respond or take any kind of action.
The part that really sticks with me though is that a variety of people who care about me could have spoken up and alerted me to disaster brewing. In fact, some real damage has been done now that so much time has passed.
I’m not looking for a pity party at all. The purpose of this post is to honestly question what our response should be when we have information that can seriously impact someone else’s life.
As a quick aside, I’m not talking about folks who can’t stay out of other people’s business. We definitely shouldn’t intrude on a regular basis because we’re nebby or malicious.
~*~*~*~
By pure coincidence*, I ended up on a porch alone with Bender many months later. He was hammered on a mix of things I’m sure but shared a tender moment of appreciation with me before puking over the railing into some lady’s hedges. I still think about him every time I drive past that porch.
Maybe Tom was right. Maybe we shouldn’t get involved in other people’s business. After all, getting into other people’s lives can be messy. Why should we care? And who has time anyway right?
But then I think about the past year of my life and how much better off I would be if just one person would have spoken up to me. Then I’m challenged by all the times I’ve considered speaking up to someone else but kept my mouth shut.
I know life is hard enough without adding someone else’s problems, but sometimes we need to step in when it’s the right thing to do. Even if you might get thrown through a wall.
I really want to know, what do you think?
*If you believe in such things.
It sounds like you’re talking about a situation where friends knew something but you didn’t, and you could have avoided some hurt if they had told you so that you could deal with it…? If I were in your friends’ shoes, I probably would have told you.
In general, I tend to err on the side of looking out for friends, especially my really close ones. There are always weird situations and circumstances, though.
Yup, I think we all find ourselves on both sides of these types of things from time to time. Doing the right thing is often tough!
I try to choose carefully which situations could use my help, and which can’t. Or, which shouldn’t. I fail, often, and feel like a gossip or a schlub. I succeed, sometimes, and it is on the tail of those successes that I sometimes feel empowered to insert myself into other situations where I should not be.
Sigh. It’s tough, Claydawg
Ha, everybody was dawg in the 90s but I really got it
It is hard to be a grown-up. Life was much simpler when your only concern was if your firetruck hook ‘n ladder was working properly in order to rescue someone from the imaginary burning building. I have been in your shoes too many times to count, but hindsight tells me these instances are what make you grow as a person.
Would you actually have listened if someone had brought this information to you?
Or would knowing have made it all worse?
So many questions, so little time. Dust yourself off, find the lessons you can learn from the disaster and move on. You will eventually be in a much better place.
As for involving yourself in other people’s business, that’s a hard call. Sometimes it is better to not say anything, but it is always mature judgement that waits to see how things progress before jumping into a situation. Waiting is the hardest part. (thank you Tom Petty)
Best of luck to you Clay!
Mary Jo
Thanks for the great comment Mary Jo. I know what you mean about how some people don’t listen to truth. In these cases I would’ve known right away. Thanks for the encouragement too. I’m dusted off and doing good
Great topic. I think most people would like to help but the whole “shoot the messenger” thing hinders involvement. Currently I am on fence with this topic and usually weigh all options before stepping out. I will say that I am a sucker for someone in need and usually stand up and step out. I have been shot more times, and taken on more battles that were not mine than I care to admit thanks to individuals (in situations like yourself) who chose to handle the situation poorly. I think if the people on the receiving end of the help would conduct themselves less carelessly and exercise consideration toward the individual who tipped them off then more people would step in. But ya’know…Once bitten twice shy.
Great point about the troubles of being the messenger! That’s definitely a relevant response to my questions above. In my particular situations there was no reason to shoot a messenger this time, but it’s kind of like the metaphor that we might get thrown through a wall eh? Also, Once Bitten, Twice Shy was a great song by Great White.
OK, I’m going to date myself here but that song was THE song from the Twice Shy album that all of us 18 year olds listened to ‘back in the day.’ I couldn’t resist plugging it in here. Plus, I knew that the plug wouldn’t go unnoticed given that you are the Pop Culture Prince and all
You know that’s right! I’m a hummin’ and a strummin’ all over God’s world
There are many variables when it comes to getting involved in other peoples worlds. For me, the primary ones are: Am I close enough to the person that they will listen to me? Is the situation severe enough to warrant involvement? Would I allow them to be involved if positions were reversed?
If the answers to all three of these are yes, then I’ll absolutely step in. Only two, I might hint at the issue, sound the other person out. Only one, I’ll watch and wait.
Every one of us has to choose in this regard for ourselves and unfortunately many people don’t have good personal judgement in determining what is severe and what isn’t or are happy to tell us about insignificant things but let fear of a poor response stand in the way when the situation is severe.
All the best to you Clay. If you ever need to talk you know my email.
Peace.
Those are great questions Gene. Kind of how a court would establish a written standard to measure each situation. Good stuff. I appreciate the kind response
Let me share:
A was a friend (I thought she was my bestie along with another girl, we called ourselves the Triumvirate). When A got all hot and bothered over a man (all my friends were older than I, so I was about 15) who was richer than Croesus (this should’ve told me something about Her) and I knew him for years? I warned her. “That guy will bang you and leave. Period. It’s his thing to snag girls, promise crap to them (and they want to believe cos he’s wealthy–we’re talking 1%, old money) and dump them. He’s only in his early 20s and he has done this scores of times.
A went to him and he denied knowing me (duh). For my friendly warning, I was dumped by me entire circle of friends. “She’s jealous.” He f’d her and dumped her like all the rest. Did I get an apology for ruining my social life for 6 months? Nope. Did I even get, “He was a dick, you tried to warn me?” Nope. I started getting invited to dinner parties again and I’m ashamed to say I ran right back with that crowd.
13 years later, tried to warn her off something else (something she was doing that was destructive). Being older, she did a better job. She told me, “You burnt a bridge with me and I’ll burn every bridge you’ve got.” She did. I’m older, too. I don’t want anything to do with those jerks but the point is:
I tried to help because she was in a bad way both times. I was punished for it. Saying I didn’t get invited to dinner parties isn’t strong enough. I was persona non grata with everybody in our community (not just the circle of acquaintance because she spread lies about me coming onto her then husband–erm, DID NOT).
Do I try to warn people now? Yup. I told quasi-sister her man was cheating on her 6 weeks after they were engaged. Her response? “I’ve already put a down payment on the reception hall.”
I’m thankful I haven’t “needed” to warn anybody else. Quasi-sister, BTW, was married for 5 years when her husband came home and said, “My girlfriend’s pregnant. I want a divorce.”
People, apparently, don’t want to know. They SAY they do but you tell them and they either destroy your Tokyo (like Godzilla, get it) or simply brush it aside.
You think you want to know but in my experience, people don’t want to know — they don’t want to face the Big Bad coming from somebody else who sees it when they don’t.
Thanks for sharing that. I can empathize with the impossible challenge of finding out people are making up stuff about you. In fact, that’s one part of what I’m referring to above. What can you do when people say something about you that’s completely false? How can you falsify something that never happened? Awfully tough. The best case is that you at least know what lies are out there about you. I know a pastor who found out that a woman he never knew had been telling her clients for almost 10 years that he was having an affair. No one knew where that came from, but all these people were walking around believing this about a guy they’d never met!
And there are certainly people who won’t respond well. That’s another tough part of these equations.
Perhaps not the best thing but I’ve always chosen to walk (or run) away (except in that younger case where I was so relieved to be “let back in” that I didn’t realize this was THEIR problem, not mine).
There is something to standing your ground and telling your truth; however, when lies are told like those (big moral stuff), what I’ve found is people either want to believe it (and won’t believe you saying, “Nuh uh” or they are only having fun “sharing” gossip (don’t care whether it’s true or not–a scary thought about them).
In the end, I walk/ run away and whatever few people care enough to come up and say, “Are you okay? What’s going on?” are more likely people whose opinions are worth caring about (unless they’re those who simply want more gossip).
It’s a mess and I don’t like to play in the muck.
It’s so hard to know when it’s right to speak up and when it’s more appropriate to bite your tongue. I don’t think there’s a straight answer. I tend to be a tongue-biter myself, because I hate to rock the boat and always want everyone to like me. I agree with madtante that most people don’t want to hear the truth from someone else.
I’m sorry to hear about what’s going on, and hope things find a way of working out.
I’ve often been the same way Jules. I like it when people like me right? Saying the hard thing is really tough with our personality. The opposite would be those people who love creating problems and getting overly involved. It’s a tough thing to find the appropriate balance!
I’m sorry that you’re in this situation, Clay. It’s hard and awful that you feel betrayed by those closest to you. I think everyone has been in some kind of situation like this and I think Gene has the right of it, by asking those 3 questions. Everyone has a story that makes them think twice about telling information. Most messengers are between a rock and a hard place. They don’t know if the person they’re telling will turn on them, or the people they’re telling about will turn on them. They might not want to choose. It doesn’t excuse your friends’ behaviour, but maybe understanding where they’re coming from might lessen your hurt.
Thanks for the comment Trish. Betrayal is an interesting word here. I haven’t been thinking that these individuals betrayed me by not saying something. I’ve been considering it more a disappointment but it makes me think about what types of emotions any of us experience when we’re on either side of a situation like this. As you and some other commentators noted, it’s also pretty tough to be on the messenger side of the equation. Much of the emotion of these events has dissipated. That’s why I’m able to step back and write a post like this in a way that can honestly ask some questions that are useful to work over.
I obviously don’t know your situation, but i guess, if I’m considering telling someone something, I try to consider whether they’ll appreciate the information, or whether it’ll just hurt them unnecessarily. Then there’s also the issue of whether you’ll be believed, and whether the person might already know the information and be choosing to ignore it (especially in the case of cheating girl/boyfriend, I find, a lot of people know about it and choose to keep their head in the sand). It sounds like you could have used the info to stop some issues later on, so you should have been told. However, sometimes I find it’d be a case of telling one person something about what someone else is saying that will just hurt their feelings. In that case, I either avoid the person saying nasty things, or tell them flat out to not talk about this with me.
Life is complicated, and the messenger does get shot on a regular basis. Hopefully your issue gets resolved.
Good perspective, and you’re right about some people not wanting to know. There’s a ton of different situations that can come up. I just thought of another one. What about when someone is sick and they don’t want people to know? That can be another rough situation, especially if the illness if very serious.
I wonder if we’re supposed to decide whether or not to speak up based on how we think people might react or not? Is there the right thing to do period or is it a fluctuation case by case thing?
It does sound serious and since it is irreparable I would be pissed at my “friends” too since they were probably just looking out for themselves and didn’t want to get involved. I would have told you if not saying anything would bring you some kind of harm since I have a tendency to reach out. There are all kinds of people out there.
Geez Clay I am sorry. Hang in there. Maybe ask for some help in clearing this up.
I’m truly okay Susie. Like I said, I’m not looking for or needing any pity, but thanks for the sentiment. I’m also not pissed at my friends. Maybe disappointed. But that’s the challenge right? I’m trying to think through all the times I could’ve responded differently as well. As I’ve been thinking through these things I realized that everybody goes through this stuff, on both sides of it too. You’re right about communication being the key to clearing things up though.
I can relate to this. We were in ministry for a long time and you’re almost taught it’s your job to butt in…and I think sometimes it is. I recently lost a cousin due to child abuse. A six-year-old boy was killed because no one spoke up. I have no idea how many people had knowledge of what was going on, but when the stepmom was arrested, people came forward…what if they’d come forward sooner? He could still be here today. It’s a delicate balance for sure. Good words to chew on today…
Thanks for the thoughtful comment Courtney. I was also thinking about my work in ministry as I wrote this post. Teaching also creates heightened responsibility to speak up in situations like this. My situations were just kickstarter examples and not as serious as this sad story you’ve told. I understand the questioning after the fact though.
I pick and choose my battles. At times I feel it necessary to intervene—especially if someone is endangering themselves or others. Most of the time I wait for an opening to say it under better circumstances…and approach that person then…if they don’t seem like they wanna hear it I personally move on—sometimes folks are not ready to hear or accept the truth. I’ve worn that hat myself even… I will say if someone is breaking the law–then all measures need to be made to stop their behavior—despite what “hassle” it may cause us. Look at JoePa and what has happened to him with that whole situation. A lot of times you implicate yourself by ignoring the truth and just walking away.
I agree that we need to pick and choose our battles. Not always easy decisions. And you’re right about a certain level of violations when it comes to the law. Thanks for the comment Rachel.
It’s a tough call. Balancing the need to “fix” people with actually giving help can be a difficult road to navigate. I think I have to check my motivation most. Am I doing it because I can’t let this juicy piece of information just sit? Or am I doing it because not telling them will genuinely have a negative consequence? Sometimes it’s both, but until I can be sure that it’s the second, I’m more likely to keep it to myself.
Yes. That’s the challenge I was thinking about myself. How and WHY have I acted in the past.
I’m sort of middle of the road on these matters. In the past I haven’t hesitated to get involved when I felt a trainwreck was inevitably on the horizon. I’m less inclined to do this as I’ve aged. I tend to gauge the situation based on what the end result might be. Is it a possible drug overdose? Or is it just an unflattering sweater that makes the person look pregnant? I also talk very cryptically (this comment, Exhibit A.) which tends to help me ease into an uncomfortable conversation.
The first line of your post is classic! Well done with the hook!
Thanks Angie. You’re not going to criticize my sweater this Christmas though are you
Of course I am
Great writing, eh? Serious and funny words that resonate = ClassicClay (Claysic? – not quite the tone I was going for).
Sometimes my involvement depends on two things: (1) if my heart is beating really hard, it means I need to say something. It’s like my body is telling me it won’t rest until I do stand on the edge. (2) How full my own backpack is. Sometimes, especially with friends/family in repetitive bad patterns (whom I’ve spoken to before), I feel I can’t put another issue that likely won’t be resolved into my own backpack. Wimpy? Maybe.
Great post.
You, a wimp? Never. Probably not. Maybe. Good point about the pattern side of people’s behavior/behaviour.
I think we all have to take a good look at how we relate to other’s. I know that things will happen and people will say “I knew that but didn’t want to hurt you” or ” So and So told me about this but I fiqured it was none of my buisiness” of course always followed with “Sorry I should of said something”… I won’t go in to great detail but the fact of someone not telling me something they knew for years cost me a relationship years ago. There are times to this day that I wish the person had told me as soon as they knew but they felt it was none of thier buisiness as well as other people and let it go until things were so damaged there was no point of return… I have tried through the years to be honest, find out the truth, then confront the situation weather it be on me or a friend…. To stand by and let something go that you know can hurt another person and know it as fact, then to just sit on it and do nothing is as bad if not worse then taking a friend and throwing them trough a wall….No Uncle Matt stories… No New York Stories… People just need to know, if you know something that can effect a friend/family member or just someone you know and you don’t get involved then you have to share the responsibility of the outcome…… Just my thoughts on this rainy day…….
In the words of one of my favorite bands of the past Eve 6. “Honesty’s a virtue that can hurt you let it be.” Good thoughts as always Arty. I always appreciate your perspective.
Man, I really hope that I am not among the friends who should have spoken up… but I am much like Rex from “Toy Story” and wracked with guilt for never doing enough – or worse, doing too much.
This is a tough call, and I know that with some guys that I study the Bible with we have been on the side of likely “doing too much” or “messing with wasn’t our business”.
Prayers to you brother, and this situation.
Ha, no Garr you’re not
I’ve never heard anyone compare themselves to Rex from Toy Story, but you know that I especially appreciate such a dynamite pop culture reference!
I try changing names or using a hypothetical. Sometimes this work but if this backfires, I usually back down. I guess it depends on how serious it is…
Yeah, like the sitcom version where one character fails miserably at trying to explain about “a friend” but it’s really funny cuz it’s not real. I like those situations better!
Great post about an important topic.
Treating someone wrong takes all sorts of forms. Some of my friends bully their husbands. Some husbands bully their wives. Every day at the apartment’s park, I see kids bullying and being bullied. With young kids it’s easy. They forgive easily and respond to kindness–even the bullies. With adults it’s harder because they’ve lost that ability to forgive easily. So if you speak out about something going wrong, even if you speak in kindness, they’ll lash out. At first. They’ll always lash out first. But then, the true friends will stew on it awhile and either change or talk about what’s going on. The others will either ignore you or ignore the topic forever. I hate it when that happens. It’s hard not to wish you never brought it up.
Unless it’s a case of physical violence, I have no idea when/where/how to step in . . . all I know is it’s different for every person and situation.
Wow. I just went off on bullying when your post was on a more broad topic–about when to step in when you see something wrong happening to a friend. Hm. Great post, truly great post.
Thanks for the kind words. Never a bad time to take on bullying Ellster! Go get em. You’re right.
Clay, I’m so sorry that you’ve gone through something emotionally exhausting recently. It can feel very lonely, knowing people have actively chosen not to speak up to help you.
Especially if clarity could have come easily with a little information.
I hope you have some peace with the information now.
Love you, Fryber. Always here for you.
Aw, thanks Renee. Definitely got that peace. The funny thing is that ignorance is bliss. Until you find out what you were ignorant of!
I skipped all the comments so I KNOW I’m repeating already published wisdom.
Two days ago I had a conversation with a close friend and we high five’d the idea of having people in your life who are never afraid to “speak truth over you.” As long as it’s in love. To me, that’s the key – if the butting-in is wrapped in a real compassion for the person, then proceed.
Sidebar: I tried to visualize the characters at the beginning of this post. Let’s just say, the role of your roommate was played by Pierce Brosnan. Suave.
Ha, he certainly was suave! That’s funny. And you are dead on. We’ve got to speak the truth in love.
Clay,
I empathize with your situation. I have not only been there but have had to be the one who broke the news.
I believe that a true friend will have the courage to warn you of any impending doom. To that friend “none of my business” only applies to the people they do not care about. It does not take much to warn someone… a simple phone call, text, letter or unannounced knock on the door will do. What hurts more than not knowing until it is too late, is knowing that your friend knew for the last few months but “spared” your feelings.
I have been there when I knew a manager was going to be fired in the coming months. What do you do with that information? Although my manager and I were not very close I took it upon myself to inform her of the possibility of her losing her job. She was able to find a replacement that better suited her and I was fired for opening my mouth. Fortunately for me I was a high school student who worked part-time with no family to support. While my old manager was a single mother. The good out weighed the bad for me and I’d do it again.
You seem like a very good man and I wish someone would have spoke up to you. Just take that in to account next time you are in the position to stick up for another. Have a good Thanksgiving.
Thanks for those thoughtful comments Courtney. Great example of a positive way to handle a tough situation. You have a great Thanksgiving too!
This is a great post, Clay, although I’m sorry you have a situation that would prompt you to post it. I think a lot of people are very uncomfortable with the possibility of being in a position that might require a commitment to an ideal or a confrontation so they avoid committing themselves by not saying anything,even if it involves friends or family. On the other hand, some people do ‘shoot the messenger’ and people get tired of ‘getting shot’. Also I have found when people are in positions of leadership, their choice of true friends narrows as their responsibility to others increases.
Many years ago I worked at a retail store where a woman came in with her daughter. The woman’s voice kept getting louder and louder, cursing and demeaning the daughter (she was about 9 or 10). People started putting down their shopping, moving towards the door and leaving. They were giving the mother dirty looks but never said a word. Then the mother started hitting the daughter. My supervisors were aware of this but didn’t intervene. I couldn’t stand it and told the mother she needed to stop that behavior. She screamed in my face and dragged the girl out of the store. I ran after her and wrote down her license plate. Afterwards the customers still in the store commended me for doing that. I could only wonder why they didn’t say something, too. If everyone said someone, maybe that little girl wouldn’t be subjected to that behavior, but the mother had permission from society because people were afraid to ‘get involved’. I called child protective services and even they wouldn’t intervene, a small incident like that couldn’t be investigated, even with a license plate (this was many years ago so hopefully that’s changed).
Another example: (without getting too specific) Working in a ministry leadership position, we became aware of some choices that were being made based on prejudice and had to confront superiors. They rejected what was obvious and we couldn’t support it. Were forced to leave and ostracized by a lot of ‘friends’. It was a very hard and lonely time, but we had no choice but to speak up. I guess we did have a choice, but only one we could live with. They ended up closing down that ministry because of the decisions they made and it affected a lot of young people.
The takeaway: Isn’t your ‘uncomfortableness’ worth someone else’s reputation, peace of mind, safety or future? Examine your heart and be willing to speak up. You never know how what some might deem as ‘butting in’ will help someone’s reputation or life.
Thanks for sharing this, Clay. I’m praying for wisdom and healing for your situation.
I appreciate what you’ve said here Kristin. You’ve been in the middle of some tough situation indeed there. And you bring up another side of these instances that can get really tough: ministries. Churches are riddled with dissension and conflict. Probably one of the biggest reasons some people stay away from churches is because of the conflict they see within. Challenging thoughts for all of us no doubt.
Ack. Sorry you’ve gone through this, Clay. Relationships are messy by nature as none of us are perfect. In these types of situations, I ask myself a few questions. Is this a person that I care about and with whom I am friends? Would I want to know if it was me? What is my motivation in telling them? Yes, you run the risk of anger, denial, unfriending, and the like but real friends can tell each other hard truths, even when we might not want to hear it. I am grateful to the friends who will call me out, warn me, and love me no matter what.
I don’t think I can add anything to that Leigh. Strong perspective!
Sounds like a very hurtful situation. I’m sorry you had to go through this, Clay.
I’ve often seen things between my friends and their kids, and between my friends and their husbands, that are small steps toward breaking what can’t be mended. What I tell them, though, is up to what they are ready to hear me say. People let you know when they are open to seeing the things that others see. They bring it up, or they ask. That’s the opportunity to kindly answer with truth. What they do with it is up to them.
Even my husband just keeps his mouth shut with me and watches the train wreck sometimes. Overall, I’m grateful that he respects me to handle my life enough to learn from and work through my own mistakes. We can’t keep people from the lessons they are determined learn the hard way, but if we only say what they are open to hearing and don’t try to force anything on them, we can at least be there to love them through the pain.
Will Rogers is attributed with saying, “A very few folks learn from being told. A few more learn by others’ examples. Most of us just have to pee on the electric fence.”
Do you want me to beat someone up for you? Figuratively speaking, of course.
There’s definitely a value in being allowed to handle our own lives. That’s a flip side of this coin and also one of the reasons why it’s not always easy to know if we should speak up or not. There’s some black and white cases but so many of these situations are grey eh? And Piper, I know you would totally beat someone up for me. You’re the bestest
I also go back and forth on this question. I used to get a lot more involved when I saw trouble but I’ve learned to mostly mind my own business for better or worse after so many instances of help being rejected and the trouble latching on to me instead.
I get that. I also am surprised that trouble would ever latch to you. You so humble for starters, like a teflon Gatsby.
Great discussion here. I’m sad that real life inspired this post, but I appreciate your willingness to talk about it. Far too often people turn a blind eye to things, when they’re often the ones who could minimize or eradicate the problem just by stepping in to help. Sadly, these are sometimes the same people who want to help pick up the pieces and provide comfort when things fall apart. I have a hard time accepting comfort from such folks who could have helped hold things together in the first place.
Unfortunately, it’s not a cut-and-dry issue. There are times when we need to leave something/someone alone. More often than not, though, our society errs on the side of negligence. This is great food for thought. One question I would pose: I wonder how the people at Penn State would respond?
I spent a minute considering whether or not to use Penn State as an example but that would’ve gotten unwieldy. I think there’s a select few people you can count on to bring the truth at all costs because it must be done. Everyone else is a fringe player with less invested.
Oh wow…I have a LOT to say on this matter, but probably don’t want to say it all in a public forum…lol.
I think that if anyone close to you has some information that could (positively or negatively) seriously impact your life, they need to tell you. You don’t want to miss out on a great opportunity, nor do you want to be made to feel foolish as the truth will, inevitably, come out.
I want to hear the absolute truth at all times from people who love me and whom I love; if you’re just a gossipy type, then don’t bother, but if you’re a true friend, then let me know what’s going on, you know?
Very interesting post, Clay. I’m sorry that you’re having to figure out whatever it is you’re having to figure out right now…
My prayers are with you… OOOO (<— those are big hugs…lol)
Definitely something to the idea that some truths are inevitably going to come out. When there’s no doubt about that I think the situation is again different than in many other cases. Good point. Thanks for the big hugs
I guess you should get involved, but it’s hard, because it can cause trouble for yourself. And sometimes people are in trouble, but don’t seem to want out of it. I’m not good about helping with others’ problems. I only want to help when it’s safe, but even then, I probably usually don’t. I guess as long as a person won’t get violent, then we need to help them. If we’re putting ourselves in danger, then maybe we don’t. Sometimes it just causes more trouble.
I appreciate the honesty and can relate. It’s just not easy to be involved with someone else’s problems period. I feel redundant writing period and then typing the punctuation mark.
For either side of your proposition (helper or helpee) I find direction by looking towards wisdom from the ages. Wisdom is better refined than any microcosm of anecdotal experience which too often is merely a knee jerk reaction instead of thought through discussion. Ecclesiastes has much to say about timing, especially Ecclesiastes 12. When help from our experience could apply to our friend’s situation then “timing is everything” seems to be the adage that applies. Our friends don’t need us butting in while they’re working the thing out unless they ask, and that’s all a matter of timing – and our willingness to be available to them. In your case, where you were in the dark, a heads up from knowledgable friends is more than reasonable. Proverbs comes to mind:
“A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for a time of adversity.” “One who has unreliable friends soon comes to ruin, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.” Hearing what others think about the matter makes for interesting conversation and promotes a healthy dialog for healthier relationships.
But, I noticed that more than few of the responding posts that warn about bad outcomes from trying to help friends don’t adequately qualify the friendship. Qualifying our friends before we become attached enough to offer help isn’t a prescription for being a jerk — its just prudent and calls for wisdom from Matthew 7:6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” And, ““A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” of 2 Peter 2:22 Prov. 26:11
We can still hang out with pigs if we choose, and most of us do throughout the normal course of societal exchange. Just don’t spend valuable resources, like helpful experience, without being being asked. Every aspect of God’s creation is valuable and deserves being treated well. But, its a fallen world populated by wicked, foolish, lazy people who rarely become wise enough to listen or help others.
Its a rare moment when someone shares wisdom with us. And, its our privilege to share wisdom, if we can find it, with our friends. But, don’t expect a lot and you won’t be disappointed. Sometimes, expecting to get thrown through the nearest wall is about right! Imagine what would have happened if you’d shared a few Bible verses with Bender about pharma-drunkeness.
Of course, for special friends and often family that’s just always special, breaking a few wise rules to help out is worth the price of being foolish.
You have a lot of strong points in there. I do think that lowering our expectations is practical, and I considered some of those verses about what it takes to be a true friend. Loving someone isn’t about rosy feelings all the time as nice as that would be. Sometimes doing what is best is going to have some tough side effects. Then again, we do get burned out by getting burnt. Thanks for the thoughtful response Mr. B.
I really enjoyed this small skit of a story and how you handled it and what you learned from it. I could tell you now, that If i was your friend when you were in college, I wouldn’t be putting my hand on your shoulder I’d be catching you before you hit the wall. Which is why I can’t thank you enough for stepping into my life the way you did, even though you could of “minded your own business”, I think sometimes the risk is worth taking, especially when you change their life.
Thanks for that Matt. The risk is definitely worth taking, especially when you know that there are no accidents. We’re placed in particular places for a reason. Part of our purpose in life is to respond in the right way when the time comes.
I have a friend from India. He says it is insulting NOT to offer advice and ask questions:
* Of friends
* The first time
If you bug folks you don’t know and/or do it multiple times, you’re a busybody.
Droppin the Eastern perspective. I like it.
I just skimmed through the comments and sounds like you’ve already received a lot of solid advice, Clay.
I just have to say I’m sorry that you are in this situation that has obviously brought about a degree of pain. I also want to say that sometimes people know things, but they don’t know what to say or how to say it. And, that’s why they back off or keep quiet. That’s not an excuse, it’s a just a thing. Looking back on my life, I think friends of mine tried to tell me things, but they were really too immature or didn’t have enough life experience to even know how to broach the subject. I don’t even know if this is applicable to your situation, but it’s my perspective.
Other advice I’ve heard in this situation is to ask yourself, “Am I the right person to say this?” and “Is now the time to say it?” May sound like copout questions, but if you answer them honestly, you may find answers. There are certain people in my life who would never respond to my “intrusion” no matter how truthful. Others, would welcome it. Weighing that long with my own motivations helps me to make the call. Also, asking God to create an opportunity seems to help a lot, too.
Good thoughts Keri. It’s true that many time certain people just can’t be the ones to offer tough truth. That’s often the case in families where certain relationships are strained.
The family relationships are exactly the ones I was thinking of. Another reason why it’s so important for me to have really strong community in my life-where certain relationships are even expressly for the purpose of speaking truth to me, even when it hurts. I hope you find healing through all of this, Clay.
Thanks for that Keri. Happy to report that I’m doing great, but thought this a great opportunity to get some different perspectives on something I know we all deal with.
Such a thought-provoking post. Sadly, there’s often little we can do if a person doesn’t want help. It’s also sad when we get hurt in the process. As you said, part of maturity is knowing when to help and when to step back. I suppose intuition, rationale and emotions play a role. The fact that you’ve carried this memory with you speaks of your good heart. Thanks for sharing it!
Thanks August. I appreciate your thoughtful response. From all the feedback I realized how many different situations like these there are for people to go through.